If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. Xeviat Hero Nov 13, 2020 #13 What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. You also need to actually use True Polymorph- the 9th level spell- to turn into an Archmage. You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form. Does that mean any printed creature? You turn back into a lvl 17+ Wizard. This links in to the "what happens when you are reduced to 0 HP" rule. Obviously the chain gets broken if they fail a Concentration saving throw, but they'd get the Adult Gold Dragon's Legendary Resistance to help them out, there - and it'd get reset every time they True Polymorph themselves, too. The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium, What source is that? So then. a lvl 20 can potentially shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon. given that they've seen one before? But sometimes you want to break the world in other interesting ways, and True Polymorph is a great way to do so. Why the obscure but specific description of Jane Doe II in the original complaint for Westenbroek v. Kappa Kappa Gamma Fraternity? Which was the first Sci-Fi story to predict obnoxious "robo calls"? You decide what action it takes and how it moves. Has your original stat block gained the benefits of any rests you may have had in the interim? That's actually a perfect point and suddenly perma TP is valuable again. To address your edit: Concentration is not a class feature of spellcasting classes. The intent is that a druid using Wild Shape is disintegrated if This spell seems to me to be a worse true polymorph. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. Just gotta make sure you can pass the Dispel check against yourself (maybe a friend can help you with a Guidance/Enhance Ability/Bardic Inspiration) or youll turn into a nothlit. Thank you for your comment and welcome to RPG StackExchange. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. You dont gain any Spellcasting traits, but you do gain Innate Spellcasting traits. Can a Wizard polymorph low-level PCs into over-powered beasts? It kills you. If the Power Word Kill spell is cast on a Polymorphed creature, what happens? You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into a non-magical object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). Spellcasting is a class feature, and the rule on components (PH, 203) says what is physically required to cast spells. For the duration, the creature has truesight, notices secret doors hidden by magic, and can see into the Ethereal Plane, all out to a range of 120 feet. After the hour-long concentration is completed, there is an Ancient Brass Dragon in the party that can kill basically anything it wants and shapeshift back into his Lvl 20 Bard self and play a jaunty tune while he's at it. 6:20 PM - 16 Sep 2015. Should they change the rules or release something 'official' in regards to this, then I would abide by that, but at the end of the day, it still all comes down to what the individual DM decides works or doesn't work. Does that include NPCs with levels? That's over a day of straight shapechange. Why does Acts not mention the deaths of Peter and Paul? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. This lets you almost fully turn into something while still being an enormously powerful spellcaster from time to time if needed. True Polymorph is best used on your allies and minions as they'll make better use of turning into a beholder or better use of becoming a pit fiend than you will. Expect updates periodically as additional sourcebooks are published. And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. When the spell states that you take the form of "any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower", does this mean the players class level, spell-caster level, or total level from all classes. Is there a generic term for these trajectories? Especially in regards to Polymorph and Shapechange and Secret Doors. If a player said they were going to start training to become a wizard again, I'd say "yep, you certainly try to gain wizard powers". And that particular cat form, if it's the one I'm thinking - it stops working at level 43 because, according to the race file, it recieves massive stat boosts at that level, becoming essentially a dire form. What's the cheapest way to buy out a sibling's share of our parents house if I have no cash and want to pay less than the appraised value? Do they remain dead? Druids are woefully starved of their basic class features in FK. I don't mind piping in that tabletop and a mud are different in the respect that tabletop ends when the dm is no longer present but a mud runs with an automated design at all hours. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Keep in mind that the lowest level you will be able to cast Polymorph is level 7, so you generally wont look for combat forms below CR 7. You can't concentrate on two spells at once, at all: ". Just because your character knows the hand wiggles and latin necessary for casting Wish does not mean that your assumed form has the wellspring of power within to be able to make it happen, any more than if you taught the components to a random farmer. The spellcaster level is also used for any cantrips included in the feature. The creature can't be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. Deciding what actions the new creature takes and how it moves isnt called out as requiring any kind of action on your part, or even interaction with the creature. The other answers seem to assume that as a rule and are forgetting that death in animal form is stated to also revert you, not just dropping to 0 HP. You can argue RAI being for polymorph and the second pool of HP (which is a benefit of those spells and abilities) taking precedence. Polymorph (both regular and true), Shapechange, and Wildshape all have a consistent rule of reverting to original form when 0 HP are reached, and can be summarized as follows: If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. Equipment that merges has no effect in that state. You could TP into her to get another 9th level slot theoretically, but you'd be limited to casting what she can so you can't cheese another slot to also cast Wish. points you had before you transformed. Worn equipment functions as normal. Shapechange states that you turn into a typical example of the creature withoutthe Spellcasting trait, but Crawford has confirmed on twitter that you would keep your ability to cast your own spells because that comes from your class features. Can you get infinite spells through True Polymorph and Change Shape? You need to look carefully at what you choose, but most high-level things have Innate and not regular so expect to be able to use everything unless you are, for instance, looking at the Diviner stat block. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. So I should ask my DM. It turns out we are both wrong. Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. Effectively this will multiply your spell slots, and it's generally a good tactic. User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API, Extracting arguments from a list of function calls. -. RPGBOTis unofficial Fan Content permitted under the Fan Content Policy. It seems odd that wild shape is replaced by shapechange as a druid ability, when shapechange is a powered up version of polymorph for druids and wizards according to D20. Lets say, at my table, you can use any stat block that isnt for a unique creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus in place of yours. You can find more information about what constitutes a class feature among monster traits in this Q&A: What is considered a class feature for a monster for the purpose of Change Shape? It does mean you dont get the full benefit out of, for example, Shapechanging into a pit fiend and using the Charisma of 24 to power your Bard spells, although thats still a very good idea since they can clearly speak and have hands for somatic components on top of a pile of other great benefits. @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. By what metric are we going to judge that? The tension between the specific rules, over the general 0 HP rule, exists because Polymorph spells also overwrite unconscious because you don't fall unconscious when you revert to old form if the damage taken doesn't also exceed your normal HP. So what level of authenticity is required? Does your DM need to know or decide by fiat the mean age category of all Brass Dragons out there? The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. You cant use any special senses you have (for example, darkvision) unless your new form also has that sense. Does Disintegrate reduce the a Polymorphed target to dust first or does the creature revert to its regular form first? You cant use any legendary actions or lair actions of the new form. There's still the concern about making this too overpowered, though. What happens to the target of a "permanent" True Polymorph spell when its caster dies? We also wont cover Unearthed Arcana content because its not finalized, and we cant guarantee that it will be available to you in your games. dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your Unlike every other polymorph-type spell or ability, you maintain access to all your class features (including spellcasting). I'll go ahead and throw my support behind this idea. The differences are entirely for the roleplay description of the monster as it disintegrates, and the size of the ash-pile. Does it mean you can make up creatures from whole cloth and, as long as the calculated CR is less than that of your target, you can turn someone into a weredracopyre lich? Unless the target was already animal-level intelligence (a familiar, a pet dog, etc. The two biggest ones are that polymorph limits you to beasts, while shapechange is all creatures except undead and constructs. Druids have the Wild Shape feature, and although numerous textual references refer to this ability, at no point (that I can find) are they specifically called "shapechangers". by Raona Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 pm. Shapechange only turns you into another creature. Can I true polymorph into an Ancient Brass Dragon, and then use its Change Shape ability? You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. I definitely see the argument there. I'd be more interested in being able to shape change into a Adult Bronze Dragon. or, if we were in the ocean. a leviathan good god this would be epic, As I am reading it - rules as written - at level 17, when you can gain access to this spell, you could Shapechange into"any" Adult Dragon (assuming you had seenthe type of dragon before). Wild Shape also comes into the game much earlier than those spells. Those are the two big differences I see on a quick glance, there may be more if you dig into it. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. is there such a thing as "right to be heard"? Thats the literal interpretation of the rules Well-treated is entirely culture dependent. True Polymorph Concentration Level 9th Casting Time 1 Action Range/Area 30 ft Components V, S, M * Duration Concentration 1 Hour School Transmutation Attack/Save WIS Save Damage/Effect Buff (.) Crawford calls out that, RAI, a depiction of one (like a drawing) would not work, but then goes on to say that using a Crystal Ball on one would. Dont expect the target to do math or make tactical decisions. Would the material component of this spell be replaced by a spell focus since it doesn't say that the circlet is consumed? Per the tweet linked, it appears that both Polymorphed cretaures and Wildshaped Druids would revert, rather than turn to dust, as RAI. Does a password policy with a restriction of repeated characters increase security? As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce the creatures normal form to 0 hit points, it isnt knocked unconscious. Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. However, it may be helpful to pick a few staple forms which you use repeatedly. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. 5e doesn't have any hidden rules, and there doesn't seem to be anything about it working that way in the Spellcasting chapter of the PHB - and if it did work that way, wouldn't it break Polymorph spells in general, since they lose their Spellcasting class feature while Polymorphed? It seems valid to rule that disintegrate overrides the transitional form because it also destroys all non-magical equipment. This passage at the very end of it's description is what sets it apart. A difficult CR. You could also True Polymorph someone else, and they would be free to polymorph into something else. Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. The GM has the creatures statistics and resolves all of its actions and movement. What about if you change it in ways that dont damage the product though? 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to Next paragraph: The target assumes the hit points of its new form, and when it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. Should be about cr 27 if I remember correctly or atleast ancient gold dragon cr. This gets weird when we have multiple stat blocks, a la dragons. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Choose one creature or non-magical object that you can see within range. There's nothing to dispel. While polymorphed, the targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. What is the meaning of 'permanent' in description of True Polymorph? Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? Folder's list view has different sized fonts in different folders. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Does the Way of the Long Death monk's Mastery of Death feature protect against the Disintegrate spell? Can you choose an age category? Your culture? by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:29 pm, Post For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form The only catch is that you can't regain HP this way - if you shapechange into a new form (not the initial casting) that has higher HP than what you're currently changed as, you keep the same HP. I suggest picking a form for disabling enemies by turning enemies into it, a form for scouting, and a general combat form. An Answer for Everything: The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook ( direct link) 3.5 Summoned Creature SLA Lists (indexed by SLA) 2017-03-11, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601) Spoilers. In discussing this with Tyler, his answer was to lean heavily on the word kind. To him, kind meant species as defined by taxonomical classification, so I could choose to make you a human or a pit fiend, but not the Diviner stat block from Volos. Well, no. As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal being available to druids) would be a wonderful enhancement and go a long way in providing druids with equality--and bringing the game as a whole closer to the standards we have applied just about everywhere else. You could see it as one of two things, though they both have very similar end results: a) The body simply disintegrates, and stays that way. I know that True Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the first True Polymorph would end when they cast the second one, I don't think they lose the spell they're Concentrating on if they lose the Spellcasting feature that gave them the slot in the first place? You can effectively put away your character sheet and replace it with the stat block out of the Monster Manual. This is just not included for no particular reason, so if you want to turn a boulder into diamonds it needs to go through the intermediate step of being a Brontosaurus as described above. D'oh! To my understanding, this -is- the primary mode of combat, travel, etc. by Hrosskell Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:08 am, Post I think the Legendary Resistance comes under the category of Legendary Action, because a legendary action is basically just an action that a creature can do whilst it is someone else's turn. check out the. Is there a difference between When you are reduced to 0 hit points and when you would be reduced to 0 hit points? Object into Creature. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled. Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. Did it enjoy being used for the purpose for which it was made? "Legendary Resistance (3/Day). The Ancient Gold Dragon's Change Shape ability has an additional clause (emphasis mine): Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form. Use In-Game Forum commands to activate your forum account, It is currently Mon May 01, 2023 11:12 pm, We can put them in a helpfile and also keep them available on the, Time for the ability/skill should be increased. @JeremyECrawford What happens if a wild shaped druid is reduced to 0 by disintegrate? If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creatures bonus in place of yours. CR 0 has better scout and disable forms, and nothing here is useful as a combat form. True ploymorph an ally into a ghost then true polymorph another ally into a gold shadow dragon. True Polymorph only lets you use the abilities of the thing you change into and you lose your race and class features while transformed. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. MIP Model with relaxed integer constraints takes longer to solve than normal model, why? You do not get the chance at a death saving throw, nor to stabilize in the disintegrate case. You're also more than welcome to link to my handbook if you want extra information available in the shapechange spell description in yours. This answer favors Disintegrate because it bypasses, or renders null and void, considerations of the "unconscious" state at 0 HP. Of course, many groups will simply allow whoever got turned into a T-Rex to do as they please. You're just a whatever. The short answer is that I have no idea, but I can make some suggestions. What if, again, its a golem that you ordered to protect something and it sat for an hour doing absolutely nothing? Why favor Disintegrate? So an Archmage's Spellcasting. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. for druids in D&D. Just because a form you take is capable of casting spells does not mean you can inherently cast any spells that arent part of that stat block. Your druid will have been shaping for 12 levels when the wizard finally gets Shapechange. If you want to support your answer as written, suggest you refer to the sage advice compendium, page 14, since JCrawford covered both cases in that SA final draft. This spell combines very well with the War Caster feat as it gives an advantage on the save. Don't know why I didn't process the 'truesight' reference in the spell description and assumed it was complete/redundant. Legendary Resistance is a perfectly valid tool you gain access to. Change Shape: The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast. (Taken from the Disintegrate spell) by Nearraba Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:01 pm, Post Polymorph (Creature Type) can be a unique spell. Remember from way up at the beginning that you cant transform the target into a magical object, so no you cant turn someone into a Sphere of Annihilation. You lose access to your former class features while True Polymorphed. Polymorph (both regular and true), Shapechange, and Wildshape all have a consistent rule of reverting to original form when 0 HP are reached, and can be summarized as follows: If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. But then they will encounter the same problem if they try to do it a second time. At level 20, the best you can hope for is an Ancient White or Brass Dragon as the rest have a challenge rating of 21+ and that gets into "epic levels" (assuming any DMs use that kind of 21+ progression). Next paragraph: The targets gear melds into the new form. Can I have my friend True Polymorph into a pit fiend, let me see it, not concentrate for an hour so they turn back, and then I can do it? So if I'm understanding right: Disintegrate could replace the 0 HP trigger and thus insta-kill morphed creatures, or Polymorph would have precedence. Shapechange trait from something like a dopplganger says; The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium humanoid it has seen, or back into its true form. You know, animal stuff. If an Ancient Metallic Dragon uses Change Shape to turn into a humanoid with Innate Spellcasting, do the uses of X/day spells reset each time? You get the same benefits of Polymorph but there are a few key additions: 1) You can cast spells and still use your race and class features if your new form lets you. RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which is simple to understand and easy to read at a glance. If you turn a creature into another kind of creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the targets (or its level, if the target doesnt have a challenge rating). I hardly consider turning into a monster permanently as cheese. However, if the target within the antimagic field hits 0 hit points, or otherwise dies, the effect of True Polymorph would end should their body be removed from the antimagic field. There's a lot of differences between shapechange and polymorph. The Disintegrate result overwrites the "fall unconscious" effect for the targeted creature. form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. Being hungry, and animal stuff, I dont know. We'll look into beefing up shapechange vs. polymorph at that time. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into a nonmagical object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). Obviously if you aren't concentrating you don't have to worry about breaking concentration. What should I follow, if two altimeters show different altitudes? That's the biggest advantage - True Polymorph can let you create a decently strong companion if you decide to turn an object into a creature. To help with answers: is the spellcasting of an archmage a class or race feature? ); Just not at the hour a level suggested here. 2023 Wizards. @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! In other words, True Polymorph is still an active spell on the target, and would be suppressed but not removed by an antimagic field. You lose class abilities, feats, racial traits, etc. - Top - End - #12. Essentially, a druid like this would be able to stay shapechanged -indefinitely-. Manage Settings You, however, lose your own features and spells, and (arguably, although there isn't any rule specifying this) you'd be limited to casting non-concentration spells because technically you're concentrating on True Polymorph. All of that is part of the pile of dust. It retains its alignment and personality. This means that when your wizard polymorphs themselves into a tyrannosaurus, their Intelligence drops from 20 to 2. Your equipment doesnt change shape or size to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form cant wear must either fall to the ground or merge into your new form. It uses this ability to turn into a CR 12 Archmage, which has the Spellcasting feature, allowing it to cast spells using as an 18th level spellcaster, using its intelligence score. Allies may need to use Animal Handling to direct the target (they are a best now, after all). well that depends .. there are 2 cr 30 monsters tarrasque avarage on attacks is 24 28 32 so dc 12 14 16 all almost guaranteed pass with the stat you mentiond. Giving this some more thought is certainly more I'd like to see, along with everyones, The third problem is skill ups. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled. The advice offered below is based on the current State of the Character Optimization Meta as of when the article was last updated. As writen, it does not say you cannot use a creatures legendary saves, but it does say you cannot use its legendary actions or lair actions. Like a summon. Why refined oil is cheaper than cold press oil? Which takes precedence? An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Does the druid simply leave beast form? I had used it, and is one of my favourite spells in the game, because you are making the saves using the new form's saving throw proficiencies, so let's put an hypotetical lets say you transform into an ancient brass dragon, that has a +13 to con savings, you would have to receive more than 28 points of damage for the dc to be higher than 14 just to make the dc for you to be able to fail it, and taking into account that the average damage a terrasque, a cr 30 monster, makes is 28 i would argue the concentration aspect is almost irrelevant. Maxman You are using an out of date browser. by Althasizor Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:26 pm, Post Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. It seems clear that Polymorph restricts you to doing things your new form is inherently capable of doing, whereas Wild Shape and Shapechange allow you to do anything you're normally capable of as long as your new form is physically able to do it. Is there anything that prevents this from working? Which means that the PC is now double Polymorphed, but since True Sight says . Ok, a few things here. Do you lose Concentration upon beginning to cast a Concentration spell, or upon completing casting a Concentration spell? Be a Quori, use Mind Seed, turn into a Frost Worm and burrow into the ground. The creature can't be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? If the same attack that causes a druid to revert from Wild Shape also reduces their maximum HP, what happens? The warlock casts True Polymorph, turning the bard into an Ancient Brass Dragon (possibly even one that can cast spells).
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